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	<title>Comments on: Why do our time estimates suck?</title>
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	<link>http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/2009/04/19/why-do-our-time-estimates-suck/</link>
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		<title>By: Daily Digest for 2009-04-20 &#124; Pedro Trindade</title>
		<link>http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/2009/04/19/why-do-our-time-estimates-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-191</link>
		<dc:creator>Daily Digest for 2009-04-20 &#124; Pedro Trindade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 07:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/?p=444#comment-191</guid>
		<description>[...] Shared a link on Google Reader. Why do our time estimations suck &#124; Code of Doom [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Shared a link on Google Reader. Why do our time estimations suck | Code of Doom [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dtb</title>
		<link>http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/2009/04/19/why-do-our-time-estimates-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-190</link>
		<dc:creator>dtb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 18:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/?p=444#comment-190</guid>
		<description>Comment &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bitsifu.com/wordpress/?p=3&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comment <a href="http://www.bitsifu.com/wordpress/?p=3" rel="nofollow">here.</a></p>
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		<title>By: kl</title>
		<link>http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/2009/04/19/why-do-our-time-estimates-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator>kl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 17:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/?p=444#comment-189</guid>
		<description>estimation is absolutely not like halting problem! you are not estimating how long algorithm will execute, but how much effort is required to write it. And you don&#039;t have to be exact, which gets you out of paradoxes like estimating how long estimate will take.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>estimation is absolutely not like halting problem! you are not estimating how long algorithm will execute, but how much effort is required to write it. And you don&#8217;t have to be exact, which gets you out of paradoxes like estimating how long estimate will take.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcel</title>
		<link>http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/2009/04/19/why-do-our-time-estimates-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-188</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 17:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/?p=444#comment-188</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-187&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Tom&lt;/a&gt; 
Thanks for the heads up :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-187" rel="nofollow">@Tom</a><br />
Thanks for the heads up <img src='http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/2009/04/19/why-do-our-time-estimates-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-187</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 17:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/?p=444#comment-187</guid>
		<description>2nd heading should be &quot;well&quot; not &quot;we&#039;ll&quot; I think. Delete this comment after you fix if you like(or don&#039;t put up if you screen them).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2nd heading should be &#8220;well&#8221; not &#8220;we&#8217;ll&#8221; I think. Delete this comment after you fix if you like(or don&#8217;t put up if you screen them).</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/2009/04/19/why-do-our-time-estimates-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-186</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 11:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/?p=444#comment-186</guid>
		<description>Oh, and I heartily second the recommendation for the estimation book by McConnell. As usual he&#039;s boiled a huge field down into a highly readable handbook.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and I heartily second the recommendation for the estimation book by McConnell. As usual he&#8217;s boiled a huge field down into a highly readable handbook.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/2009/04/19/why-do-our-time-estimates-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-185</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 11:24:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/?p=444#comment-185</guid>
		<description>Good estimation is possible in scenarios where you have good historical data and a fair amount of practice in estimation.

I don&#039;t have the figures to hand but the SEI have a whole bunch of statistical research about what is and is not possible. A &quot;mature&quot; organisation -- you know, one of those rare, sane businesses we all want to work for -- can get estimate variation down to somewhere in the vicinity of +/- 20%. The SEI claim that teams following their TSP can get that as low as +/- 5%, but that&#039;s for a really good team.

As usual, it&#039;s not that we don&#039;t have ways of developing much better estimates, producing better code, preventing defects and all the other software engineering wishlist; it&#039;s mostly that nobody applies anything that the academics have cooked up. I have a theory that tools, and not methods, drive industry improvement. If it&#039;s not in a dead-simple tool, it doesn&#039;t exist in industry practice, end of story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good estimation is possible in scenarios where you have good historical data and a fair amount of practice in estimation.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have the figures to hand but the SEI have a whole bunch of statistical research about what is and is not possible. A &#8220;mature&#8221; organisation &#8212; you know, one of those rare, sane businesses we all want to work for &#8212; can get estimate variation down to somewhere in the vicinity of +/- 20%. The SEI claim that teams following their TSP can get that as low as +/- 5%, but that&#8217;s for a really good team.</p>
<p>As usual, it&#8217;s not that we don&#8217;t have ways of developing much better estimates, producing better code, preventing defects and all the other software engineering wishlist; it&#8217;s mostly that nobody applies anything that the academics have cooked up. I have a theory that tools, and not methods, drive industry improvement. If it&#8217;s not in a dead-simple tool, it doesn&#8217;t exist in industry practice, end of story.</p>
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		<title>By: noah</title>
		<link>http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/2009/04/19/why-do-our-time-estimates-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-184</link>
		<dc:creator>noah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 11:12:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/?p=444#comment-184</guid>
		<description>Ever heard of the halting problem? Estimating software write time is exactly the same as determining whether a given program will terminate computation which is also the the problem of looking at code and determining what it does. It is unsolvable in the general case. You can either restrict yourself to some sub set of general computation (not necessarily useful). Try to actually understand your problem domain to discover the trivial solution (my favorite although you may not be smart enough to pull it off and it could turn out that there is no trivial solution and you&#039;re screwed). Or you can work hard everyday invest in great QA folks and finish when you finish (this may not meet business needs).

Of course you can always get lucky and with as many people in IT million to one shots happen every day. So good luck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ever heard of the halting problem? Estimating software write time is exactly the same as determining whether a given program will terminate computation which is also the the problem of looking at code and determining what it does. It is unsolvable in the general case. You can either restrict yourself to some sub set of general computation (not necessarily useful). Try to actually understand your problem domain to discover the trivial solution (my favorite although you may not be smart enough to pull it off and it could turn out that there is no trivial solution and you&#8217;re screwed). Or you can work hard everyday invest in great QA folks and finish when you finish (this may not meet business needs).</p>
<p>Of course you can always get lucky and with as many people in IT million to one shots happen every day. So good luck.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/2009/04/19/why-do-our-time-estimates-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-183</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 05:42:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/?p=444#comment-183</guid>
		<description>I feel that estimations get exponentially less accurate, with the length of the actual estimate. That is, a month long project likely means that I&#039;m ballparking it and likely don&#039;t know just how many things could go wrong.

On the other hand, I&#039;ve gotten fairly good at giving accurate estimates on half-a-day to three-days scale. If someone expects an accurate estimate on a month long project, it would have to be broken down into 30+ steps implementation plan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel that estimations get exponentially less accurate, with the length of the actual estimate. That is, a month long project likely means that I&#8217;m ballparking it and likely don&#8217;t know just how many things could go wrong.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I&#8217;ve gotten fairly good at giving accurate estimates on half-a-day to three-days scale. If someone expects an accurate estimate on a month long project, it would have to be broken down into 30+ steps implementation plan.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Daly</title>
		<link>http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/2009/04/19/why-do-our-time-estimates-suck/comment-page-1/#comment-182</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Daly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 05:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://codeofdoom.com/wordpress/?p=444#comment-182</guid>
		<description>I have been programming for 38 years. 
I have never met anyone who could schedule software.

I have participated in a 5-person, 5-month fixed cost
contract that became a 10-person, 18-month failure.
A lot of review went into that schedule. A lot of 
tracking was done on that schedule. The company failed.

Don&#039;t like Gantt? Try PERT charts, worked for NASA:
Ferens, D.V. &quot;Computer software schedule estimation: an appraisal&quot;

Think the problem is that companies don&#039;t train schedulers?
http://www.ieeeboston.org/edu/2009spring/course_estimating.htm

I have a long list of war stories, all of a similar
nature...make a gantt chart, break the project into
8 hour chunks, track the project by day. Been there,
survived that. Nothing works. Nothing. 

Find a thick piece of steel. Chisel this phrase:
NOBODY KNOWS HOW TO SCHEDULE SOFTWARE.
Mail it to management.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been programming for 38 years.<br />
I have never met anyone who could schedule software.</p>
<p>I have participated in a 5-person, 5-month fixed cost<br />
contract that became a 10-person, 18-month failure.<br />
A lot of review went into that schedule. A lot of<br />
tracking was done on that schedule. The company failed.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t like Gantt? Try PERT charts, worked for NASA:<br />
Ferens, D.V. &#8220;Computer software schedule estimation: an appraisal&#8221;</p>
<p>Think the problem is that companies don&#8217;t train schedulers?<br />
<a href="http://www.ieeeboston.org/edu/2009spring/course_estimating.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.ieeeboston.org/edu/2009spring/course_estimating.htm</a></p>
<p>I have a long list of war stories, all of a similar<br />
nature&#8230;make a gantt chart, break the project into<br />
8 hour chunks, track the project by day. Been there,<br />
survived that. Nothing works. Nothing. </p>
<p>Find a thick piece of steel. Chisel this phrase:<br />
NOBODY KNOWS HOW TO SCHEDULE SOFTWARE.<br />
Mail it to management.</p>
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